Legislature(1999 - 2000)
02/22/2000 05:10 PM House WTR
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HJR 44-CONDITIONS IMPOSED ON STATES BY FED GOVT Number 0532 CHAIR BARNES introduced the next order of business, HOUSE JOINT RESOLUTION No. 44, "Relating to mandates and other conditions imposed on the states by the federal government." REPRESENTATIVE SCOTT OGAN, Alaska State Legislature, prime sponsor, began by explaining that the genesis of HJR 44 was a booklet, "Sovereignty of the People and Devolution," from the American Legislative Exchange Council. The council is a bipartisan organization of state legislators whose agenda is to restore the Tenth Amendment and states' rights as intended in the United States Constitution. The council provides model legislation that Representative Ogan said he used as a basis and modified slightly to fit Alaskans' situation. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN reminded the committee that a little more than 225 years ago, Americans started this great experiment, the United States government, a popular sovereignty. They came from a system of privileged sovereignty, in which the royalty had power over the people and the people were subject to a hierarchy. Having had a bad experience with that, the founding fathers decided to empower the people of this nation with the sovereignty and make the states subject to the people and the federal government subject to the states. Representative Ogan asserted that in the last 50 years, there has been a great undermining, a little bit at a time, of the sovereign rights of the states. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN explained that the United States does not have what is called a unitary government. Instead, all local governments and the federal government are creations of and under the control of the states. That is exactly the way the constitution was designed. Representative Ogan said: A person for whom I have great respect, Patrick Henry, was invited to the Constitutional Convention, and he declined to participate in it. And after the convention was done, he advocated against the ratifying of the U.S. Constitution because he felt it undermined the sovereignty of the states and of the individuals. He is credited by many people with being the father of the first ten amendments, which were subsequently ratified. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said the first part of HJR 44 talks about the Tenth Amendment to the constitution and the scope and power of that amendment. It also quotes a [United States] Supreme Court decision, in the case of New York vs. the United States, that said Congress may not simply commandeer the legislative processes of the states by directly compelling them to enact and enforce a federal regulatory program. House Joint Resolution 44 also refers to the powers of Congress itemized in Article 1, Section 8, of the U.S. Constitution. It talks about the powers and the duties of Congress, and then says, "and to exercise the authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state, and in the same state shall be for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings." REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he thinks the federal government has a little too much land in Alaska for the erection of forts and magazines and arsenals and docks and other "needful buildings." He wondered what George Washington would think if he saw the situation in America today with the power that the federal government has over the states and the amount of land that it owns. He quoted from HJR 44: This resolution serves as notice and demand to the federal government to immediately cease and desist from imposing mandates on the states that are beyond the scope of its authority under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States; and making any efforts to regulate, manage, or control the utilization of fish and wildlife resources found within the State of Alaska. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN concluded by saying that regardless of how one feels about the issue of the management of Alaskan resources and the allocation thereof, he believes "that the true cusp of the issue is whether or not the state, indeed, is sovereign and what authority the federal government has to impose its will on us." CHAIR BARNES invited questions. She then referred to "whereases" in HJR 44 "that will cause a great uproar." She asked Representative Ogan what he would think if instead of speaking specifically to particular issues, the committee were to delete some of those and address the resolution more specifically to imposing mandates on the state that are beyond the scope and authority of the Tenth Amendment. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he understood the reasoning behind that suggestion and would be willing to consider such a change. REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS expressed concern about wording on page 2, line 22. She said she understood where the sponsor was coming from, but for us [legislators] to be so presumptuous as to "demand" that the federal government immediately cease and desist "makes us look like a bunch of renegades." CHAIR BARNES suggested deleting the word "demand," leaving the phrase "serves notice and requests." REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIPS concurred. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said in that case he might as well withdraw the resolution. He explained: We request a lot of things, and they pretty much ignore it. I think we need to assert our sovereign rights with as much authority as we possibly can. I don't think it's a question of "Will you please not violate our sovereignty." People have died and wars have been fought over sovereign rights to manage our resources. CHAIR BARNES proposed alternative wording: "This resolution serves as notice (delete the words "and demands") to the federal government to immediately cease and desist." She said she did not think that change would do any harm whatsoever. "You don't have to put in the 'request' word, and you've taken the slag out," she added. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he would accept that as a friendly amendment. There being no objection, the phrase "and demands" was stricken from HJR 44 as Amendment 1. Number 1321 REPRESENTATIVE JOULE said he did not object to the amendment, but he was not supportive of HJR 44 in general because the state has had ample opportunities to try to address some of these issues. He added, "What is the weight of this resolution, anyway? It tells what a portion of the legislature is feeling on this issue." CHAIR BARNES said that is a problem common to all of the resolutions that the legislature sends. REPRESENTATIVE JOULE asked if, technically, HJR 44 was just going to sit and collect dust. CHAIR BARNES expressed hope than no resolution would do that. Number 1402 CHAIR BARNES directed Representative Ogan's attention to page 2, lines 6-8, and on down to lines 26 and 27. She asked if he would object to removing those lines [Amendment 2] to make his resolution more compelling to a larger group of people. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN acknowledged that this is a sensitive issue. He said he believes with all his heart that this could be resolved within Alaska, if people were given the opportunity. He added: But we are wrapped around the axle over who has authority over whom. I think this is not only in line with the legislature, but the governor also has been asserting the state's authority over sovereign rights to manage its navigable waters right now." CHAIR BARNES said she understood what Representative Ogan was saying, but believed that HJR 44 goes directly to the heart of the Tenth Amendment. She indicated she didn't think her proposed amendment would do the resolution any injustice, but would take a lot of obstacles out of the way. REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said, "Madame Chair, I appreciate where you are going and the sensitivity that you have, and I will go along with your wisdom and your seniority and not object to the second amendment." REPRESENTATIVE GREEN thanked the chair and complimented the author for cooperating. He said he thought HJR 44 was a good resolution. CHAIR BARNES made a motion to adopt Amendment 2. Hearing no objection, she indicated Amendment 2 was adopted. REPRESENTATIVE MASEK protested that the meeting was moving so quickly that she had not had time to object to the amendment. Number 1668 REPRESENTATIVE GREEN directed the committee's attention to page 1, line 14. He suggested rewording it to read, "have been demonstrably mistreated by the federal government and used to carry out ...." He explained that he knew where the sponsor was coming from; he feels the same way. However, he thought the rewording would result in a document of higher quality. CHAIR BARNES clarified that Representative Green was suggesting adding "mis" in front of "treated." REPRESENTATIVE GREEN added that he also was deleting "as tools." REPRESENTATIVE OGAN said he would accept Representative Green's wording as a friendly amendment. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said the line would then read, "demonstrably mistreated by the federal government and used to carry out ..." There being no objection, Amendment 3 was adopted. REPRESENTATIVE COWDERY made a motion to move HJR 44, as amended, out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal notes. There being no objection, CSHJR 44(WTR) was moved out of the House Special Committee on World Trade and State/Federal Relations.
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